In 1997, the pillars of heaven shook, titans clashed, and universes collided.
I am of course referring to Marvel vs DC and/or DC vs Marvel, a cataclysmic crossover that pitted the superheroes from each fictional milieu against one another for the fate of their respective worlds. In this four-issue mini-series plotted by Dan “I Killed Superman” Jurgens, two colorful and gigantic pseudo-manga cosmic beings each embody their respective universes. I’d be embarrassed if my reality's avatar looked like a big blue Shogun Warrior – I would want our cosmic being to look like a giant floating Richard Belzer head. Just because it would be freaky as hell.
The premise of the story is simple and more than a little goofy. The red and blue cosmic beings, who are brothers in some way, notice each other and decide to fight it out for supremacy. These two titans hash out their differences by pitting the superheroes of their respective universes against each other in a contest. The winner's universe will reign supreme, while the loser's universe will be destroyed. Presumably these beings can throw meteors around and make suns go nova, so why they would want to settle things by having Robin fight Jubilee is beyond me.
Velociraptor versus Jubilee? Now we're talking.
Anyway, the readers were invited to vote for the winner of one of the big "title bouts," while the lesser matches were determined by the book's creative team. Basically the whole thing boiled down to a popularity contest, not a true appraisal of which hero would win. That's the only way I can explain how Storm beats Wonder Woman: X-Men outsells Wonder Woman, so Storm wins. Stupid people.
Let's play a fun game, shall we? We'll examine each match-up and then we will compare and contrast who the readers voted for with who would really win each bout, According to Dave. Actually, I'll play the fun game and you can just watch.
Check out the scoreboard below for a list of the combatants:
We’ll start off with an easy one.
Sure, The Hulk is allegedly the strongest being on Marvel's Earth, but the laws of superhero physics work a little different in the DC Universe. Over there, Superman isn't just the strongest being on Earth, he's the biggest dog in several light years. He’s so bad-ass that he can pull the moon out of orbit, wrestle angels, and fly into the sun. All Hulk does is smash shit. Big fucking deal. Can Hulk fly? Shoot lasers from his eyes? Chill a beer with his breath? Hear an ant fart in Minnesota? Outrun The Flash? Of course he can’t. Face it, Hulk may be hot shit in the Marvel Universe, but he’s just another villain-of-the-month for Superman.
The Man of Steel could fly up at super-speed, grab Hulk’s ankle, toss him into deep space, and still get back to the Daily Planet in time to finish that article before deadline. Come to think of it, why didn’t Superman just do that with Doomsday? Kal-El would be well served to remember the wise words of The Immortal from Robert Kirkman’s Invincible:
Actual winner: Superman
Captain America vs Batman
This is a tough one. On the one hand, Captain America is at the apex of human physical development and is a master of combat with lots of experience taking out opponents ranging from Nazis to superhuman juggernauts. He kicks ass for a living, and business is good.
On the other hand, Batman is Batman. The conventional wisdom is that, provided Batman has enough time to prepare, he can’t be beat. The dude has taken out Superman more than once, who once described him as “the most dangerous man on earth.” If Superman calls you that, you must be doing something right.
In Marvel vs DC, they try to have their cake and eat it, too. Batman wins a brawl in the sewers between the two heroes, but only because Captain America is caught unaware by a sudden geyser of filthy, reeking toilet water that sprays him in the face, allowing Batman to get a lucky batarang shot in. Batman wins, but only by exploiting Cap’s bad luck.
I’m going to be a little more decisive and say that Batman would just flat out win by doing the one thing Cap won’t do: cheat! Batman cheats like a motherfucker! The man doesn't believe in fair fights, he's just interested in the outcome.
It would go like this: As they start fighting, Batman pops open a canister on his utility belt, releasing a colorless, odorless narcotic gas into the air. He needs Captain America to stay close enough to inhale the gas, so he uses a “rope-a-dope” ploy and lets Cap beat on him for a few minutes. To a casual observer, it looks like Cap is winning, but then the Marvel hero's vision starts to swim and his legs grow heavy. He sinks to one knee, dizzy… and then Batman pummels Captain America into oblivion, explaining how he has developed immunity over the years to the narcotic gas Cap has inhaled.
Then, when Cap is unconscious Batman takes permanent marker and draws all over his helpless foe and makes marshmellow eyes for him, which is really uncalled for, but funny.
Actual Winner: Batman and sewer geyser
Storm vs Wonder Woman
God, this pissed me off.
I can see how somebody could argue in favor of Storm - somebody stupid! I humbly submit that although Storm can summon tornadoes and hurricane-force wind and lightning and hot hail, Wonder Woman would still kick her ass. I'm going to be charitable and say that most of the people who voted for Storm probably weren't that familiar with Wonder Woman's powers - otherwise they would have voted differently.
Let me break it down for you. Wonder Woman can fly really fast. She has incredible reflexes (e.g., bullets and bracelets). She is hella-strong, which is one step below Superman. And, as I have argued previously, Wonder Woman is super-tough to the point of being bulletproof. Plus, she's a professional warrior with all manner of martial arts training. Wonder Woman is hardcore.
All she needs is one punch. Sure, she might get zapped by lightning, but BFD. That can't be any worse than getting knocked through a skyscraper by Superman. She'd shrug it off, fly up to Storm at supersonic speed, and punch her in the ear. One punch and it's over, baby.
Do you not see the wisdom of my words? The Amazon wins.
Dave’s Winner: Wonder Woman
Actual Winner: Storm
Spider-Man vs Superboy
I would be offended if I were Spider-Man and had to fight this clown.
Spider-Man wins. It's not even worth talking about.
Dave’s Winner: Spider-Man
Actual Winner: Spider-Man
Wolverine vs Lobo
Quicksilver vs The Flash
Now THIS should have been an off-panel fight. The Flash lives in the DC Universe, where physics are cranked all the way up to 11. He can tap into something called The Speed Force which basically means he can stop time and race around pulling down everyone's pants before they can even blink. Quicksilver is fast, but we're talking race-a-jet fast, not race-a-beam-of-light fast.
In the comic, The Flash wins as he should, but in such a way that Quicksilver preserves a shred of dignity. I think The Scarlet Speedster would have made quick work of the Scarlet Witch's brother.
Dave’s Winner: Flash
Actual Winner: Flash
Jubilee vs Robin
Jubilee: annoying X-Men sidekick! Robin: not-annoying Batman sidekick! Whoever wins - we lose!Robin has a head-cold, so at the last minute I have substituted him with a hungry velociraptor. Run, Jubilee, run!
Dave’s Winner: Velociraptor
Actual Winner: Robin
Sub-Mariner vs Aquaman
Peter David scripted Marvel vs DC #2, which features an embarassing encounter between the Marvel and DC Kings of Atlantis, Namor the Sub-Mariner and Aquaman. I believe David was writing Aquaman at the time, and methinks I sense a little chauvenism creeping in the fight scene between the two undersea heroes. After trading jabs and jibes, Aquaman defeats Namor by commanding an orca whale to flatten him.
First of all, getting smothered by a whale wouldn't be enough to KO Namor. Second, Namor can fly. Third, Namor is about ten times as strong as Aquaman, whose own super-strength is rather ill-defined. Fourth, Namor has a battle cry: "Imperious Rex!" Aquaman's battle cry is: "Wait for me guys!"
I'm not saying it wouldn't be a fight, but Namor would kick all sorts of ass.
Dave’s Winner: Namor
Actual Winner: Aquaman
Elektra vs Catwoman
I'm inclined to say that an uber-competent she-ninja would beat an uber-competent cat-burglar, but let's decide things another way. Let's determine the winner by comparing the domestic box office totals of the crappy film Elektra with the excretory movie Catwoman.
Catwoman
Budget: $85,000,000 (estimated)
Gross: $40,202,379 (USA) (10/17/04)
Elektra
Budget: $43,000,000 (estimated)
Gross: $24,409,722 (USA) (03/27/05)
Although Elektra only grossed $24 million to Catwoman's $40 million, it had about half the budget. And Terence Stamp, which tips the scales in the ninja's favor.
Dave’s Winner: Elektra
Actual Winner: Elektra
Thor vs Captain Marvel
"Verily, the God of Thunder shall smite yonder Big Red Cheese with thine enchanted mallet, Mjolnir!
"Gasp in awe as the Odinson metes out pain as only the Odinson can. Mine uru hammer shall strike his ear again and again until the heavens gape wide and the earth heaves and trembles and yon foe cries, 'Yield!' Watch as mine vanquished foe kneels before Thor and begs me not to strike him anon, like a starving cur trembles at the feet of his master! For glory in battle is the birthright of the Mighty Thor - I drink victory and sup on triumph! Forget it not!"
Dave’s Winner: Thor
Actual Winner: Thor
Silver Surfer vs Green Lantern
In Marvel vs DC they pit the Silver Surfer against young Green Lantern Kyle Rayner, and the Surfer comes out on top. This is as it should be; Silver Surfer possesses the Power Cosmic and Kyle is just a lucky punk with a magic ring.
However... everyone knows that Hal Jordan is the Real Green Lantern. If you threw him up against The Silver Surfer, Hal would win because he is Hal.
Dave’s Winner: Silver Surfer
Actual Winner: Silver Surfer
There you have it. As you can see, I concur with the outcome of most of the matches in Marvel vs DC, but there are a couple head-scratchers in there. Aren't you glad that I took the time to sort this all out? I know I am.
179 comments:
At the time that this series came out, we were doing a huge round of interviews for hiring entry level people at a software firm. I was disillusioned by the hiring process others were using (it was entry level, the applicants basically needed a pulse, not 6 hours of interviews with every member of the company), so I decided to ask completely idiotic questions. My primary question was : "Who would win in a fight between Superman and the Hulk?" Anyone who answered the Hulk was not recommended as a hire. It's common sense.
so what happened to their respective universes? i didn't do the math here, but they are both still around.
Big way, man! Namor ROOLZ!
I like how topics like this bring out the inner-adolescent.
I saw Terence Stamp in the cafe at my hotel in Reykjavik one morning last summer. It took a good bit of restraint to keep from running up to him and yelling "The son of Jor-El will never kneel before Zod!" How could I have been so short-sighted?
Anonymous, I am going to start asking that question in interviews!
True story: I was interviewing an applicant once, a nervous youngster, and as I'm giving him my little introductory speech prior to the beginning of the interview, I said, "Oh, and at some point in the interview I'm going to toss a lit firecracker on to the table to test your reaction." The guy was so nervous he wasn't even listening, he just nodded and said "OK."
Good picks, one and all. Superman beats Hulk.
And Thor beats Superman.
(chair falls over, sound of running.)
I agree almost completely with your take, but I have to give the Batman-Cap fight to Cap. Cap is used to guys fighting dirty against him. I mean, everyone knows the Red Skull is not above eye-gouging or rabbit-punching.
I totally agree, that Spider-Man-Superboy matchup was the punkest of the punk. Spider-Man deserves better, even if it was that idiot Ben Reilly at the time.
I believe someone fabulous once said that Aquaman isn't so much about the brute strength but the defeat by humiliation. Scipio, I'm looking in your direction. Yeah, Aquaman all the way baby, he won't hand Namor his butt, he'll get a dozen jelly fish to sting him in uncomfortable places and have flying fish bring him back to sea when he tries to fly off.
Although the battle cry is quite good, Aquaman just humiliates people with fish. Brilliant.
If you threw him up against The Silver Surfer, Hal would win because he is Hal.
Oh, bullshit. The Surfer would conk Hal on the head with his board and zip off looking for space-babes to moon over.
Excellent alternate take on the Cap-Batman fight, that would have been much better.
Batman is always best when he's using his brains to judo much more powerful villains (or heros). The animated shows were good at that (probably because they tried to avoid too much actual violence). You can imagine many ripostes from Batman on the Justice League show ending with "...dumbass."
Dave, aren't you supposed to be working?
Me? I'm on my lunch break.
Wonder Woman beats Storm. Every time. Thank you.
They actually did some of these much better in Avengers vs JLA, like Quicksilver only beating the Flash when they were in the Marvel Universe and physics worked in Quicksilvers benefit. Or the throwdown that was Superman vs Thor.
Wow, a lot of ear punching happening in Dave's scenario.
The Cap/Batman bout is a tough one, especially since I'm picturing a Matt Salinger v. Adam West slapfest. (Salinger, for the unaware was the "star" of the embarrassing 1991 movie, proudly ranked #58 of imdb's Bottom 100.)
Dave, that was incredibly funny. As always! Thank you!
Gosh, I was SO disappointed in this series. I'm a big fanboy, and that was a fanboy dream come true, and I should have loved this, but it was just a big commercial hype, and there was little character interaction, just senseless boring bashing - with no regard to actual powerlevels or personalities.
Moreover, it wasn't even the REAL heroes: we had Ben Reilly as Spider-Man, Crabfaceguy as Green Lantern, Thor in a stupid costume, Superman with a mullet. It was ridiculous.
Thank the goddess for Kurt's and George's Avengers vs. JLA a few years later - which was absolutely everything anyone could wish for.
Except Thor vs. Superman - I agree, post-crisis Supes should have lost, or at least struggled MUCH harder to beat Thor.
Pre-Crisis Supes though... HAH!
I would want our cosmic being to look like a giant floating Richard Belzer head.
Kind of like this, maybe? (Thanks for the excuse to do even more messing around during class!)
I was all happy thinking about how Lobo used to get cloned whenever a drop of his blood spilled, imagining Wolverine cutting and cutting and cutting and getting himself in more and more trouble.
Then pal Josh reminded me that Vril Dox "fixed" that.
Vril Dox, I hate you.
The most insulting thing about the Storm/WW fight wasn't just that Storm won, but it was the particular way she won:
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but WW, as pointed out the second strongest hero in the DCU, flew up to the mere-human-strength Storm and *kicked her in the head*. Storm then just shrugged it off and electrocuted WW with lightning. That--that's just horseshit!
I'm not sure about Dave's Batman/Cap outcome, though. It's not like HYDRA and the Red Skull fight according to Marquis of Queensbury rules, so I don't know it would make a difference if Batman cheated, too.
That Wolverine/Lobo "fight" really pissed me off. It should have been eight-plus pages of glorious mayhem, instead of one page of cop-out suckitude. They should have gotten Garth Ennis to write it and Simon Bisley to illustrate it and let them go to town with the fact that Lobo is a sadistic unkillable bastard and Wolverine has a healing factor!...
Holy crap, for a moment there, I was sixteen again.
And now, back to reading Jimmy Corrigan and Persepolis. HA HA, just kidding. You're never too old to indulge in superhero beatdown debates! I recently spent over an hour arguing with a colleague about who would win in a fight, Batman or Wolverine.
Of course, everyone knows that Batman can beat anybody. "There some part of "prep time" you don't understand?" Heh heh.
Thanks for this post. The 90s were one of the worst eras for comics, but it's hard not to look back upon them with some fondness, especially if you were still in school then, and your soul had yet to be crushed by a mind-numbing job and the knowledge that the universe doesn't care. But enough about me. Back to Marvel vs. DC!
Things I kind of liked about the series: 1. The Robin-Jubilee flirtation. 2. The fact that Aquaman won, even if I knew deep down that he shouldn't have. 3. Um... I don't think there is a #3.
Listen, Captain America used to whip whole hordes of screaming Nazis with a trash can lid, he can certaninly had an obsessive-compulsive closet pederast with a tech fetish and bad personal skills his rich-boy ass. No contest. Bats would've popped your knock-out juice ("Hrhn. I'll use the Bat-America-Hater-Gas!") and Cap woulda just kept on whipping ass. "I took on the Reich, mister! You think I can't hold my breath?"
As for the Alabama ass-whippin' Superman laid on Thor, the Odinson must've had a cold that day or something. Thor whips ass on mythological beings before breakfast. Maybe Supes was using his Super-dick powers that make all those old issues of Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane, Superman's Beard, so damn entertaining in a post-modern way. So, I say thee nay.
Okay, but DC v Marvel did give us the Amalgam Universe, which in turn gave us Spider-Boy, Super Soldier, Apocalypso, JLX, and H.E.C.T.O.R.
And for that, I will always be grateful.
I have only one question-what would the Velociraptor merge with in the Amalgam universe?
Devil Dinosaur?
Giving us Devilraptor!
Heck. I'd so buy that book.
I agree about Cap and Batman - the whole point of Cap is that he's so good, it doesn't matter if someone wants to cheat. Whatever Batman had planned, regardless of whether or not it took him six months of all-out concentration to devise the perfect plan, Cap could bypass with five seconds to spare. It's the difference between strategic and tactical thinking, baby.
I always wondered why they didn't just have Wolverine and Batman match-up - because neither of the companies could have predicted the outcome, and one of their most tarnished cash-cows would have had to lose? Because the stress of having to actually choose a winner would have caused fanboy heads to explode across the land?
And as for the Hulk... yes, Superman has more powers. But all those other powers are just, like, mosquito bites for the Hulk. I will refer you to the Incredible Hulk #398, wherein the Green Goliath's flesh is completely flayed off by one of those lame U-Foes, but it regrows in about the time it takes for him to say "you shouldn't have made me mad". Superman would have spent an hour just pummeling the Hulk and then the Hulk would have just gotten angry and put Superman in a coma.
Aquaman would "pwn" Namor. You know why? Because Aquaman has heard of these magical devices called pants.
Even Post-Crisis, Supes is the biggest dog out there. At the very least, he can hold his breath out in space longer than the Hulk.
Of course, post-Infinte Crisis (post-Crisis Crisis?) Supes is practically back at the Silver and Bronze Age levels, so there's no real fight.
I mean, come on! His name is SUPERman. Not Justaboutasstrongaseveryoneelse Man.
And Aquaman's victory was par for the Sea King's course. He used fish to do his dirty work.
I gotta speak up for my boy Billy Batson! All Thor has is the power of one God (and one of the lame-ass Norse ones at that), while Captain Marvel has the power of SIX Gods at his disposal. Plus his best friend is a talking tiger in a business suit, which means nothing in a fight, but is tres cool nonetheless.
And the Marvel fanboys can talk up their boy in the red, white and blue tights all they want, everyone knows in their hearts that every time they meet on the street Batman will make Captain America look like a punk.
Yeah, I said it.
(And yes I feel lame for having said it so vociferously)
I will not long brook your disdain for the Main Man, Campbell. Your admittance that he can, in fact, stand toe-to-toe with Superman grants you passage this time.
They should have dedicated an entire miniseries to the Batman/Captain America fight. Give Cap the win in the first issue, Bats the win in the second (after he had time to review his opponent's fighting style, and adjust his tactics accordingly), and then have the world blow up or somethin' in the third issue.
And Lobo would rip off Logan's arms and beat him with 'em. They'd count as adamantine clubs, I believe. Reduce that damage, mutie!
Dave, what issue is the Invincible panel from?
Lobo is totally lame. Wolverine used to be cool, a long time ago. Lobo never. Wolverine would win. End of story.
YOU HEARD ME! END OF STORY!
And when was Bill O'Reilly Spider-Man? Did I read that right? Man, I bet those books were LOUD!
Wasn't there a twelfth, "unscheduled" fight between Darkseid and Thanos? I've wasted precious brain cells storing that information for the last ten years but obviously I couldn't be bothered to burn one more and remember who won it. What happened there? (Anything less than Darkseid mopping the floor with Thanos's copycat ass is unacceptable.)
And why didn't you blog it, Dave? Unless maybe there's just nothing funny about a cosmically awesome supervillain who's constantly getting beaten up by his own son and a genocidal maniac who wants to hump a skeleton.
I have a strong suspicion that those who disdain Lobo have forgotten (or never knew) that he was originally intended as a parody. If I recall correctly the house ads for his first series even advertised it as satire.
COrrect me if I'm mistaken? You're not supposed to take him seriously...
Parody or satire or whatever, Lobo is still lame.
Ah yes, but few readers realized that Lobo was meant to be a parody, and so he took his place among the badasses he was meant to spoof--I imagine by the time Marvel Vs. DC rolled around, Lobo made the roster because fanboys thought him kewl. Wolverine was basically squaring off against a satirical jab at himself.
Then there's Jubilee's status as an oblique Robin rip-off, but...
The real question--who would be a reasonable DC match for Wolverine, barring Lobo?
(Incidentally, Thor deserves to lose on account of that ridiculous outfit he's wearing)...
Could Batman beat Cap?
Depends. Was Bats with Robin the night before?
The matchup I want to see is Wolverine vs. Lobo vs. Samurai Cat, Miaowara Tomokato.
Samurai Cat wins.
WW, as pointed out the second strongest hero in the DCU, flew up to the mere-human-strength Storm and *kicked her in the head*. Storm then just shrugged it off and electrocuted WW with lightning.
Yeah, but do you know what happens when an Amazon is struck by lightning?
Er, nevermind.
jim writes: "I have only one question-what would the Velociraptor merge with in the Amalgam universe?"
Cathy?
as has been pointed out before, Cap has dealt with cheaters his whole life. He's best friends with Hawkeye, fer cryin' out loud.
Not only would he pound Batman into paste, he'd do it while giving a long winded speech on the nobility of the human spirit, how quitters never win and winners never quit and how Batman's momma would be cryin' to see him be such a cheater.
Julian, that panel is from Invincible #7.
Hee, this brings back memories. I was working in a comic book store when DC vs. Marvel came out. A comic store overwhelmingly staffed by DC fans, so there was some big time ballot stuffing going on in our store.
Because really, other than Spidey, we were all quite convinced the DC characters should win.
Dave, I hope you follow this up with an indepth look at the rematch that is Avengers vs. JLA.
Batman whips out his Bat-Anti-Captain-America spray. Fight's over.
Velociraptor merges with Brother Voodoo to become... Voodooraptor, the Dinosaur Who Lived Twice!
Your picks are 100% right.
They didn't give us the fights I wanted to see. Villains. And Teams.
1) Magneto versus Bizarro
This would be like that Itchy and Scratchy cartoon where they drop progressively large objects on each other, ending with the destruction of the Earth.
Winner : Bizarro, but he takes serious damage.
2) Dr. Doom versus Lex Luthor
A tough one. I am inclined to say Doom due to his magic skills and Doombots, but let's admit it, Lex is a fucking hardcore cheater.
Winner: Luthor, by having Solomon Grundy sneak up behind Doom and pounding him.
3) Juggernaut vs. The Joker
I don't like the Joker.
Winner: I'm the Juggernaut, bitch.
4) Apocalypse vs. Darkseid
This would be an interesting fight, aside from the name connection. Apocalypse would have to push his powers to the upper limit to fight the New God, but I think he could do it. Remember, Darkseid was once defeated by The Atom.
Winner: Apocalypse
5) The Shade vs. Bullseye
Oh, this would be fun.
Winner: The Shade, probably
6) Legion of Super-Heroes vs. Avengers
I'll handicap this by saying that the Legion is limited to 5 members. They are:
Mon-El
Ultra Boy
Matter-Eater Lad
Karate Kid
Brainiac 5
Avengers get unlimited rosters.
Winner: Funeral services for the Avengers will be Monday, right after M-E Lad finishes crapping out Cap's shield. For those who doubt me:
Mon-El = Superman
Ultra Boy = ANOTHER Superman
Matter-Eater Lad= Capable of eating Cap's shield, Thor's Hammer, and Iron Man's Armor.
Karate Kid = Legion initiation was to beat up Superboy. Passed easily.
Brainiac 5 = Usually makes Batman look ill-prepared
7) Superboy Prime vs. Galactus
Something we have never seen: Galactus in a fistfight.
Winner: Superboy Prime
8) Fantastic Four vs. Silver Age Doom Patrol
Winner: Fantastic Four
And, finally:
9) X-Men vs. JLA
A bloodbath.
Winner: X-Men, surprisingly. Thanks to Professor X, the JLA is not at the top of their game.
You know, I now have a disturbing yet hilarious picture in my head of Jubilee making out with a Velociraptor in Venice.
Can anyone post a link to a large .jpg of that cool Romita, Jr. Spider-Man image?
I remember hating and loving those crappy "Vs." books. Loving them because I have been having converstaions where you ask "who would win in a fight between...?" since I was pre-natal. (In fact I remember seeing an old Little Rascals where the Rascals annoy an adult reading the paper by asking who would win between Tarzan and Flash Gordon. The enternal questions.)
Hating them because Marvel/DC did such a lame job of it. And letting the readers vote seems democratic and all but stupid at the same time. And why not give us the fights we really wanted to see? "Oh no! The Hulk careens a mailbox off Batman's jaw! That's gotta hurt!"
Actually, regardless of who you think should win in a fight between Captain American and Batman, the scenario Dave outlined on the sight would never work. Captain America's super soldier serum rapidly metabolizes poisons out of his system, rendering any kind of narcotic gas totally harmless to him unless unleashed in a massive dose.
cap would beat the pedo off of batman. cap is like a slightly more agitated jack bauer carrying around a manhole cover. a manhole cover, ladies and gents.
that vibranium/ adamantium/ crackwaynesheadium alloy would be bouncin' off of bats caped cowl much like robin goes boingo on the big bed.
7) Superboy Prime vs. Galactus
Something we have never seen: Galactus in a fistfight.
Winner: Superboy Prime
Go check out Englehart and Lim's Silver Surfer 18 to see how Galactus would do in such a fight...
The Batman/Cap fight really depends on when it is taking place. During this crossover, Bats wins, but it's not easy.
However, if the fight were to take place currently, it's Bats by a landslide. Why? It's the preparation again. The moment Cap revealed that he was Steve Rogers, Batman was already liquidating Cap's accounts, donating his WWII memorabilia to the Wayne Foundation Fund for Orphans, and making plans to bang Sharon Carter.
Batman would make Cap's life a living Hell, and THEN he'd engage him in battle. This is a guy who kept files on the best ways to kill his friends, and built a frickin satellite to make sure he he'd be ready WHEN, not IF, he needed to execute said plans.
Throw in some back story about how Cap saved Joe Chill's life during the war, enabling him to come to Gotham and Bruce's parents. Surely, Batman will discover this info, and the streets will run Red, White, and Blue...
Wow, I haven't geeked out like that in awhile. Thanks, Dave!
Anyone remember that first Marvel/DC crossover Superman vs. Spiderman? There's a sequence where the Hulk is rampaging through Metropolis—Superman stands there and lets the Hulk hit him over and over until the green goliath gets tuckered out and collapses from exhaustion. That's bad-ass.
And I love it... Aquaman: "wait for me guys"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4ApXT29gNM
Mr. Loughlin, I would totally read Voodooraptor.
I was interviewing staff for a seasonal Halloween store. The job was to walk around the store in a costume for four weeks and tell customers we were sold out of what ever they wanted. I had two interview questions:
1."Have you seen Star Wars?" and
2."Is wrestling a sport"
A "yes" on 1 and "no" on 2 were required to get the job.
Again, "Avengers and the JLA" was much more satisfactory in so many instances. The much disputed Batman-Cap fight in the above comments was settled superbly by Kurt. The best of the best unarmed combat experts in each universe use their amazing tactical savvy to lightly spar, assess and then let their brains decide over brawn. Wonderful.
As to Thor and Captain Marvel. That was the only resolution in this lame crossover series that hit the mark dead on. Thor is the God of...what? The God of Thunder and Lightning. Captain Marvel's link to his amazing shazam power is thru...what? Lightning. Even a buddy of mine who is a huge Shazam fan had to applaud the logic.
Come on, People: Batman vs. WOlverine. That's the one that would really set fandom afire.
Boba Fett is not a punk. Get that straight.
http://zombiemallet.blogspot.com/2006/04/greatest-post-ever.html
Aquaman can only win if he manages to put a shirt on Namor.
If he doesn't do that, well he's screwed. Because you know, Namor can control fish to. He doesn't do it often because he's usually strong enough to just take somebody down or he's on land.
But he's Stronger, Faster, has Flight, Can control Aquamans precious fish, and a Radar sense.
There's literally no god damn way he should loose.
I grew up and a little piece of my soul died the day I realised that the winner of any fanboy match up was decided by the writer...
Who wins in a fight between Bats and Cap?
Whoever the writer wants to win, in whatever way best serves the themes and dramatic flow of the story...it's why Supervillains all win the first few rounds but overall the goodies win the fight.
That said...
Bats should beat anyone because it makes a good story.
Superman beats Hulk and he should never have lost to Doomsday... "ack! bony protrusions so sharp they cut me" - utter blox!
There's gotta be a better match up for WW than Storm in the Marvel U?
Same goes for Spidey in the DCU?
And finally...
I really wanna see Batman fight Wolverine!
I'm tempted to go draw it...
Who would win in a fight between Cap and Bats? I honestly think it's too close to call.
I mean, Batman cheats? That'll surprise Cap; Nazis never cheat.
And I'm sorry, I don't buy that Batman has more and better resources then SHIELD. Or that he has seven years to prepare for his fight with Cap.
Yeah, Bats has more gadgets and stuff, but Cap has to be a better fighter.
It's a coin flip. One would win one day and a different one the next.
Also, there's no way in hell Aquaman is strong enough to rip off Namor's balls.
I almost think that Namor/Aquaman shouldn't have even been a fight, because Namor is just completely out of Aquaman's league on every concievable level.
It's like sending Namor out against Jimmy Olsen.
> It's like sending Namor
> out against Jimmy Olsen
Now THAT is a fight I want to see.
JUMPING JELLYFISH!! A comic book blogger!!! You are my hero!
Oh and Googum - Thor would never beat Superman.
I've long theorized that Wolverine managed to beat Lobo by, um, pulling a Dr. Light.
From what I recall, the two of them were having a fight in a barroom, until Wolverine forced Lobo down on the ground behind the bar. There was a silent panel where we saw neither of them, and then Logan came up and smoked a cigar.
Since there's no way Wolverine could take Lobo in a physical fight, he instead opted to shock him into submission. And that's why it had to happen off-panel; the Code wouldn't have allowed it to be shown.
Tim O'Neil: so smart, so wrong.
I know you don't like Superman, but what part of "throw the Hulk into space at superspeed" is unclear? Dismissing Superman's other powers is a non-sequitor. All he needs is the speed and the strength for the deep space fastball. Before Ol' Greenskin can say "Hulk sma--" he's spinning head over heels somewhere out in the Kuiper Belt.
Obviously, you are still bitter over being rejected for the job at anon's software firm.
By the way, the best Cap/Bats fight is the one in the John Byrne one-shot where Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers spend two panels dodging and blocking each other's judo moves before each realizes who he's fighting, and they become instant allies. Much the same happens in Busiek's story, where these two are the ones who realize both teams are being manipulated, and call a truce to figure out why.
But of course, if they did really fight to the finish, the only Batman who couldn't beat Cap is the Bob Haney version--who would have been knocked unconscious and thrown in a well by a blind, one-armed pickpocket on the way to the fight.
Ech, I hated this series, I have nothing against crossovers but the premise was so thinly veiled that it should have been called "Super Cash Cow"
After Cap lost to Bats and Wonder Woman got beaten by Storm I stopped reading.
Regarding Batman v. Captain America, I heard it put best as, "in a fight between a Jack Kirby supersoldier and a Bob Kane detective, the Kirby supersoldier will win out every time." And I just can't argue with that.
"As to Thor and Captain Marvel. That was the only resolution in this lame crossover series that hit the mark dead on. Thor is the God of...what? The God of Thunder and Lightning. Captain Marvel's link to his amazing shazam power is thru...what? Lightning. Even a buddy of mine who is a huge Shazam fan had to applaud the logic."
Murrkon5, you and your buddy were obviously part of the crowd that thought that Colossus's death actually made sense...
I was going to do deal with this in my rant... but here's different angle than what goes on in the rant.
Thor uses Mjolnir to manipulate and toss Thor-brand lightning. It's a lot like the real, natural thing, only Thor has more precise control of it. He can regulate the temperature and all that rot but still, it's lightning.
Shazam-brand lightning doesn't come from the clouds like Thor-brand lightning. It comes from the Rock of Eternity, which is floating in space. In some stories there is even some dude whose specific job is to throw it. Regardless, Shazam lightning is not Thor lightning. Thor would not be able to control Shazam lightning.
In the comic, Captain Marvel, he with the strength of Hercules, the power of Zeus, speed of Hermes, and the stamina of Atlas; he who can stalemate Superman in a tug-of-war or arm-wrestling match... gets pinned under a Ferris Wheel. Rather than throw it off like Superman or Hercules or anybody else with mythic powers, he changes to Billy so he wriggle free. Then Thor throws his giant, friggin' magic war hammer (forged by trolls and designed to kill things like giants) at a boy, a child, a regular human being only smaller, younger, and prepubescent.
Of course he frickin' won. He's Thor. If he can beat the Midgard Serpent, Kurse, Mangog, and Beta Ray Bill, then he can defeat Billy Batson.
Also, at some point in the fight, Cap would call Batman "son", and that'd hang the Darknight Detective all up. He's got all those unresolved daddy issues, you know.
Regarding Batman v. Captain America, I heard it put best as, "in a fight between a Jack Kirby supersoldier and a Bob Kane detective, the Kirby supersoldier will win out every time." And I just can't argue with that.
The actual line was "Jack Kirby Super-Soldier versus Bob Kane crimefighter" and it made a difference to me because Batman trained under a variety of fighting masters... and he packs a lot of weapons in his belt.
I'll argue that a Jack Kirby supersoldier fights with great human strength and mighty force of will. Bob Kane crimefighter has both of those things plus a utility belt.
and Batman has beaten super-soldiers before.
1) "so what happened to their respective universes?"
At the end of issue 3 they got Amalgamated, then Access pulled Captain America and Batman out and used the cosmic whatsis that he hid in them to semi-seperate the universes. Then he used the two most human super-soldiers of both universes as examples of why comics are cool so the Brothers did not annihilate each other.
2. "Presumably these beings can throw meteors around and make suns go nova, so why they would want to settle things by having Robin fight Jubilee is beyond me."
They knew that they would kill each other or stalemate and both live. What I don't understand is why they elected obscure super-heroes as champions. Superboy!? Lobo!? Eve Storm...
3. I was going to preface with the confession that I would have voted for Storm, given the chance, but it made it to # 3. I never got the chance to vote. Got to the comics shop too late. The logical reason I would have voted for Storm is because I forgot that Wonder Woman could fly. At the time the comic was announced and the ballot came out I was thinking of the Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman. Regardles of how strong and invulnerable she was (she could take a punch from Superman... but not a gunshot wound... I don't care if it doesn't make sense) she had absolutely no distance powers and could not fly. A. Wonder Woman glided on air currents and Storm controlled the air currents. B. Wonder Woman had a magic lasso. Storm could use the winds to tangle her in her own lasso. Then Storm could summon the full fury of every bit of crap weather, blizzard, El Niño, and category 5 hurricane, lightning whatever on Wonder Woman's head while she was all tangled up and/or ground bound. Alas, Wonder Woman can fly, and either Pre-Crisis or Post-Crisis there's not a lightning bolt that she cannot deflect off of her bracelets and at a target... and frankly punching her in the head, or kicking it should take it clean off. Wonder Woman got redeemed in DC/Marvel: All Access #4 but Superman and J'onn J'onz and Aquaman looked terrible. Crabfaceman did alright.
4. When Captain America came to fight Batman I always imagine that Batman can catch whatever Cap throws, and pretty much vice versa. On the other hand, Batman can also bombard Cap with high-pitched sonics, CS gas, tear gas, pepper spray, concussion bombs, flash bombs, and just about anything. and if Cap doesn't have shield there's no way chain mail will protect him from what Batman has.
All that aside, Batman is more agile.
More importantly Dave, it isn't cheating to use what you already have. Gas can slow Captain America and even take him out. Tghe Porcupine even has stuff that can take Cap out and Porcky's a lamer. Batman using his weapons from his belt on Captain America is not cheating. If Captain America shoots Batman, then it's cheating.
The only way to get a really cool fight out of those two is strip them of their unique weapons and armor like John Byrne did.
5. Lobo versus Wolverine might have been an illusion of a good match if the comic was not created and published during the time when Wolverine had no metal claws... and just bone claws. As it is, Wolverine didn't have any weapons or abilities that give him the capability of cutting, let alone harming, someone in Superman's class, or Hulk's class, and Lobo was up there. As it is, if Lobo ripped Wolverine's arms off, then they would not be adamantium beating stumps, they'd be regular bloody stumps.
Part of the reason the fight sucked was that it was off-panel and a single page. The second part is that what little of the fight we saw was these two guys grappling.
Wolverine, who has the strength of a normal man... at the very most an olympic-class weight-lifter... is trying to match strength with a guy who beat up Superman. Anybody who can survive a prolonged toe-to-toe physical battle with Superman even after Superman stops pulling punches is someone who can murder Wolverine in a small strength-only tussle that is confined enough to take place behind a bar. Lobo would crush Wolverine's head like a rotted fruit.
Lobo lost because A. Wolverine is greatly popular B. Wolverine has a cartoon show and absolutely no one outside of comics knows who Lobo is unless he's Sheriff Lobo and C. even most DC fans who know who Lobo is would and did vote against Lobo because a lot of people hate Lobo. I only like Lobo as a bad guy, a villain. Why was "Mister Mature Readers" in this showcase comic anyway?
6. One could make a convincing case that either Namor or Aquaman would win.... but either way Aquaman should not have won by dropping an Orca on Sub-Mariner's head. Subby has fought the Hulk on both dry land and underwater. While he has never actually beaten the Hulk.... and Aquaman can be listed as stronger than Namor if you want to believe that someone who is listed as only 4 times as strong as Spider-Man can survive a head-on tussle with the Hulk depending on who is writingthe story... anyone who can take a more-or-less full-on punch from Hulk and still be in a condition to keep fighting won't feel a single orca being dropped on his head.
7. While Flash defeated Quicksilver and both got dignity and it did not seem cheap... Sub-Mariner was robbed of his. It's dropping an anvil on his head! Namor vs Bugs Bunny!
8. Robin fought a girl in a dark balloon wharehouse and tied her up and did what afterwards? I can't imagine that anything happened but what the heck is it where one of the cosmic battles is a teenage boy fighting a girl?
9. Why was Catwoman fighting Elektra when there is a Marvel cat woman to fight, Black Cat? They fixed it in All Access #3 but I give it to Catwoman out of a sense of charity... it's stacking the deck to put one of the World's Greatest Assassins against a cat burglar.
10. Thanos and Darkseid squared off and then before Darkseid used the Omega Effect to send the Starlinist into his lover's arms... the universes got amalgamated.
11. When the universes split Thanos fought a bunch of DC and Marvel heroes that under normal circumstances he would have killed them all pretty easily.
12. Darkseid ran into the same thing
13. So most of issue 4 was the heroes fighting Thanos and Darkseid whom have now teamed up for absolutely no reason while at the same time The Living Tribunal and the Spectre attempt to stop the Brothers from killing each other with giant cosmic swords. and then Access shows up with Batman and Captain America and they talk the two beings down and away from omniversal destruction.
14. Silver Surfer would beat crabface man any day of the week.
15. Thor versus Captain Marvel was cheap crap. Captain Marvel has the power(s) of two Greek gods (Zeus, Hercules), one Roman god (Mercury), the Titan/god Atlas, the hero Achilles, and the wise King Solomon. In the Marvel Universe Zeus would spank Thor like a little girl because Zeus is a Sky-Father. DC's Zeus is powered down so Captain Marvel doesn't punch Superman's head off whenever they fight. Essentially though Captain Marvel is the World's Mightiest Mortal and it has been said that that is only a euphemism... he's not really a mortal, thanks to the power of Zeus, the stamina of Atlas, and the strength of Hercules.
Captain Marvel versus Thor should have been a 60-page one-shot filled with crashes and bangs and whooping and Greek myth-level collossal hitting destruction.
Instead, after a cool moment where they both pray....
Instead Thor throws a Ferris Wheel at Cap. Cap is pinned under a Ferris Wheel.
FLASHBACK TO LEGENDS #1...
Chris Arndt said:
Thor uses Mjolnir to manipulate and toss Thor-brand lightning.... Thor would not be able to control Shazam lightning.
Not so. Eric Masterson was able to tap Mjolnir on the ground and summon the Living Lightning, who was just flying around overhead, and cross him up with a bit of Asgardian mojo to flatten Gladiator all at once. And that was Eric Masterson with the hammer. The Thor that fought Shazam was the actual Thor.
It was a cool resolution to the fight with a kind of "Oh, yeah, he could, couldn't he?" sort of feel.
And you are also wrong about whacking Billy with the hammer, Chris. The lightning from the Rock of Eternity moved Mjolnir into Wonder Woman's presence where she picked it up, remember? After intercepting the SHAZAM! lightning, Thor had no hammer.
Legends #1... Captain Marvel, the World's Mightiest Mortal, is fighting Macro-Man, a giant dude built by Darkseid and controlled/inhabited by Doctor Bedlam. In the final part of the fight Macro-Man catches Captain Marvel and slams him through the roof of a skyscraper. Captain Marvel, who for most intents and purposes is Superman's peer in might, decides that he is trapped in Macro-Man's grip and cannot break free. Armed with the wisdom of Solomon, he decides to transform into Billy Batson. In the form of a small human child, he believes that he can easily slip free of the giant fingers and not get crushed like a grape by the giant dude who just took a punch from a man with the strength of Hercules; said punch carrying him up the full height of a skyscraper... many stories tall.
The transformative lightning bolt detonated the suicidal explosives that Macro-Man was constructed with.
The point being, bad writing has led to Captain Marvel thinking that he will stand a better chance against opposing gods as a child than as as god-man.
Thus as it was in the relevent issue three. Being trapped under a Ferris Wheel and facing a Thunder God who for all intents and purposes represents a vote to wipe out his universe.... Captain Marvel decides not to use to the abilities of Atlas, Hercules, and Zeus to remove the Ferris Wheel, or to break the Ferris Wheel, or shrug off the Ferris Wheel. He turns into a kid, slips free (rather than get crushed) and summons lightning to be turned back into a god-man. At that point Thor throws his war hammer at the kid, so it will deflect the magic lightning (I suppose it logically could... deflect the lightning bolt). One panel we saw Thor throwing a War Hammer at a small, stupid kid. The next panel is a flash of light. Then third panel is a child laying on the ground unconscious. The fourth panel I wasn't paying attention because I was saying "What the hell" and "boy was that cheap" or I would have said that if I wasn't an innocent kid myself. and it was cheap. An epic battle reduced to utter crap.
and Dave? You are wrong about Thor and Captain Marvel. Thor was wearing that crap costume. There's no way anyone dressed like that should defeat Captain Marvel.
17. Pre-Crisis Superman had more weakness to magic than Post-Crisis Superman. Sad to say I think Post- would have an easier time against a dude with a magic war hammer.
18. I thought it was lame that the DC vs. Marvel guys kept comparing Killer Croc to dudes like the Lizard and Abomination.
19. Gambit and Wolverine ripping off the Batmobile made no sense to me.
20. Green Lantern/Silver Surfer: Deadly Alliances was a good prequel but using a conceit that the previous Post-Crisis DC/Marvel crossovers were in canon when they clearly were shown to be in their own third universe was just stupid and mind-boggling. They suggested it when Joker met clone Spidey and before they mentioned in outright in interviews.
21. The mechanics of that were explained in the second sequel to DC vs. Marvel... which was published by Marvel Comics, not DC, and it was called "Unlimited Access" and it kinda sucked. The mechanics were explained and I don't believe it. I rather believe that Batman/Spider-Man takes place in a third universe rather than a combination of the first two.
22. DC vs Marvel issue 1 had a strange thing where the geographies of the universes got mixed. Parts of the fictional cities got plopped into Manhattan and various fictional Marvel Universe New York buildings got dropped into DC cities. Spidey ended up in Gotham.
23. It was even stupider that at the time Clone Spidey was referred to as the original Spidey, a prodigal Spidey, by Marvel editorial and creative... and in the canon. Yet Ben Reilly decided to be Peter Parker the unmarried "I will flirt with Lois Lane" photographer.
24. Regardless of how stupid it is from a plot perspective it was cool how the DC and Marvel characters would seek out their counterparts in the first issue or so. Angel and Hawkman got together because... they both had really big wings on their backs. The Scarecrow of DC teamed up with Marvel DC because they had the same name. etc. Fights happened in a similar way, only they were arranged by cosmic accident. Bane was beaten by Captain America. Batman took out Bullseye like a chump.
25. Wonder Woman's only true Marvel counterparts would be the Thor derivative Valkryie or the Hulk derivative She-Hulk. Spidey's DC counterpart would be Blue Beetle or the Creeper. Sad.
Why was the fate of the universe in Wolverine's hands like that?
26. "I have a strong suspicion that those who disdain Lobo have forgotten (or never knew) that he was originally intended as a parody. If I recall correctly the house ads for his first series even advertised it as satire."
You are mistaken. He first appeared in Omega Men as a villain, and was played completely straight. He was a lot different then than how he appeared now. When Giffen remade the character into how we see now he certainly became a character used for satire. But he wasn't a parody of anything when he was created. He was coldly and cruelly effective and genocidal, and was written that way for laughs.
First Lobo was a normal DC villain. Then he was a normal DC villain used for laughs and satire and stuff. Then became "out there" as we know him now.
27. "Doomsday" was a bad story in that Superman was killed by a brute that could not fly when the Man of Steel could just toss him into space. I have no problem with the idea that Doomsday was stronger than Superman or had the power to kill Superman, it's just that Superman spent so much time within non-flying boy's reach is what makes me think that the writers were missing pieces. They can tell us that Superman is not a moron; then they Superman does this for a fight.
I hope I am done. I am the king... koff koff... of... nerds... maybe... so sad...
Take Ultimate Cap, give him access to a U.S. military arsenal plus intelligence regarding Batman's habits, methods and capabilities, and there's no doubt in my mind he'd win, especially given Willingness To Kill, versus Code Against Killing.
I tried to distill my general objection to DC vs. Marvel on my own website: www.siskoid.com/blog/dvm3.html
But you guys have helped me to see that it's even more awful than I gave it credit for. Thanks for spreading the joy.
I may get my head handed to me, but...
Wolverine destroys Lobo. Easily.
First of all, this is powered-down Lobo, after Vril Dox took away the blood cloning powers. Wolverine's at the height of his powers- I think he's got the adamantium claws back, so Wolvie's packing unbreakable, supersharp claws versus Lobo's...dolphins and bullets and stuff.
Second of all, I know Lobo killed all the other Czarnians. But if you read the Lobo series, you find out why this isn't such a big deal- Czarnians were peace-loving tree-huggers. Street Poet Ray could take out the Czarnians. Matter-Eater Lad could take out the Czarnians. Lobo's the mutant Czarnian, the incredibly bell-curve-busting Czarnian, not a typical Czarnian in any way.
Meanwhile, Wolverine is *the best there is at what he does*. Overhyped and tired out? Sure. But he's still muthafuggin Wolverine. The Phoenix-killing, Sabretooth-bashing, crazy canucklehead, fastball-special, Snikkt-dealing berzerker from Canadaland. Wolverine DOES NOT LOSE.
And don't forget that healing factor. Lobo doesn't have one. Lobo could pour sulfuric acid all over Wolvie and feed the remains to his dolphins, and Wolvie would pop out two seconds later all smelling like Axe Body Spray (TM).
Wolverine over Lobo. And it ain't pretty.
And Namor kicks Aquaman's tush, too. Imperius Rex!
Hi Loren --
"I've long theorized that Wolverine managed to beat Lobo by, um, pulling a Dr. Light."
Funnily enough, that's almost exactly how Hitman and his Super-Friends (I use the term loosely) managed to defeat Lobo. Bueno!
Hey, I think any result could be justified if any particular hero's victory was...
1) clever enough
2) made sense given the participants' abilities and attitudes
3) the fight lasted long enough not to feel like a deus ex machina, oops it's been 3 pages already, insulting to both characters, rip-off.
Unfortunately, DC vs. Marvel didn't have any of those things.
I'd back Cap against Batman, but not by much. Batman could out-detect Captain America even on a bad day, but Captain America is all about the winning.
"Lobo could pour sulfuric acid all over Wolvie and feed the remains to his dolphins, and Wolvie would pop out two seconds later all smelling like Axe Body Spray (TM)."
Actually, that's more Deadpool-level healing than Wolverine.
"I'd back Cap against Batman, but not by much. Batman could out-detect Captain America even on a bad day, but Captain America is all about the winning."
Just give him the right gear. What's Wayne Industries got that the {Marvel Universe) U.S. Army and S.H.I.E.L.D. don't? ;-)
A greater question is "Why were Batman and Cap even paired up?" I mean, I know they had to play the hand they were dealt, but I've NEVER understood why these two characters would be in the same sentence together.
Batman would either respect Cap for being an old-timey hero, a la "The Grey Ghost" or he'd look down on him for being an outdated dinosaur. But I think it was the previous comment that made me think Batman should actually be paired with/against Iron Man. "What's Wayne Industries got that the {Marvel Universe) U.S. Army and S.H.I.E.L.D. don't?"
SHIELD got everything from Stark. Stark & Wayne are both futurists, especialy in the current comic landscape. You've got the government arms supplier of the DC universe vs. the government arms supplier of the Marvel universe. People give Iron Man too much credit, when his suit is really just a full-body utility belt. They're both rich playboys. They're both womanizers, although Bats claims it's for his Bruce Wayne facade, while Tony just like getting tail. Sure, Cap's a fighter and a leader. He instill confidence in his team. But the man is no rocket scientist. He might be on par with Batman in a physical sense, but not psychologically, and that's where Stark comes in. Not a sermon, just a thought.
ACTUALLY SENSIBLE PAIRINGS - Now there's a topic.
From the DC point of view:
1)Batman - Punisher (regular guys who had their families destroyed waging a one-mad war against criminals, and it's a moral struggle to boot)
2)Superman - Thor
3) Captain Marvel - Captain Marvel
4) Wonder Woman - Valkyrie
5-7) Aquaman, GL and Flash were well paired-up
8) Catwoman - Black Cat
9) Lobo - ?
10) Robin - ?
11) Superboy - ?
Should not have been left behind: Martian Manhunter and maybe Hawkman
From the Marvel perspective: I'll let someone else do this one, though I will say that left behind were Daredevil, the FF and Iron Man. Come on!
Well, yeah, I know that the Lobo who first appeared in Omega Men was different. But Omega Men sucked, and so did Lobo when he was in Omega Men.
And Superman throwing an opponent into space only works if you think said opponent is just going to sit there and be happy while Superman grabs him to toss. The moment Supes grabbed the Hulk, even if he grabbed the Hulk from a weird angle, the Hulk would just do that thing where he claps his hands together to make a thunderclap and the shockwave would make Superman let go. Even if he was miles above the Earth, he could certainly survive any fall.
The only time that's ever worked with the Hulk was when Cosmic Spidey did it during Acts of Vengeance. And really, it was the weaker gray Hulk, besides thae fact that Cosmic Spidey was considerably more powerful even than Superman. Even with his superspeed there is just no way Superman could get the drop on the Hulk that easily.
I've never seen any indication that the Hulk has reflexes capable of dealing with an opponent who can travel faster than light. Then again, I haven't read many Marvel comics since about 1983, due to the sucking.
The central problem here is that Superman is conceived as a guy whose basic, corn-fed character is so solid that he overcomes any odds through pure determination, whereas the Hulk's charm is in taking down the kind of self-conscious omnipotence that Superman represents, through sheer, one-dimensional brute force. It's a conceptual stalemate, and frankly, nowhere near as fun to ponder as Hulk/Thor or Hulk/Thing.
All of the detailed, D&D-style speculative battle mechanics strike me as a smokescreen for the central question--which character do you find more aesthetically or thematically appealing? The earnest, "Truth, Justice and the American Way" uberhero or the instinctively anti-authority outcast hunted, but never caught, by the Man? Our conclusions bend to our prejudices.
But aside from all that, Superman kicks the Hulk's ass. it's obvious!
Hulk vs SuperMan
The problem with this battle is, Super Man only gets beaten in the DC universe, by DC villians,at the writers conveience, but what's the ponit of Superman if he can't lose or atleast struggle, and Hulk should of atleast been Savage and at peak strength like when he was tossing She-Hulk, Namor, Hercules, Iron Man and Wonder Man around in one issue of Hulk.
Ultimately Super Man should win not easily or there's no point.
Captain America vs Bat Man
Close, Captain America maybe, pretty equal. Like both of these guys so perhaps a draw.lol
Match ups I would have rather liked to have seen:
Bat Man vs Wolverine or even DareDevil
Iron Fist vs Bronze Tiger
Or Tag Team match between:
Super Man/Captain Marvel v Thor/Gladiator
If, just if (hypothetically)Marvel and DC one day truely amalgamated companys then I think we would see some real unbiased downout and true to form battles with more evenly matched battles...hmmm..oh well just dreaming.
Nicely done!
I just finished doing much the same over three months worth of posts on my own blog, but probably far less eloquently.
Now I'm surfing Blogspot to see what other Marvel vs DC results hit up.
I tend to agree with all of those assessments, so perhaps there's hope for conetmporary comic readers if such an event should ever occur once more.
[Stop me if you've gotten this a hundred times already, but the event was actually '96.]
Nice work!
Cheers!
Q says ~~~~
I dunno man, wonder woman was made out of clay. I'm sure storm could come up with some crazy cycle of elements to turn her sorry superior ass back into mud.
Hilarious. 100% true. Originally I didn't agree with Lobo vs. Wolvie and GL versus Silver Surfer. But, you straightened me out on the Lobo vs. Wolvie thing and I originally thought that particular GL WAS Hal, so, you're right.
The Superman vs. Hulk thing was 100% right also.
I'd wonder why they didn't have Rogue (Ms. Marvel powered) or even Ms. Marvel as the opponent of Wonder Woman. Much better fight. Rogue FTW!
Bullspit lobo vs. wolverine lobo would go down bitch style cause he is one. wolverine would kick lobo's lilly ass all around the galaxy. but the superman and batman fights were right on.
Dude you really need to learn your comic stuff before posting. This is the bigggest worst shitload Ive ever heard. Namor beat Aquaman, Bullshit. To think Lobo can stand a chance against Wolverine makes you fucked up. Ok Wonder Woman can beat Storm but WTF, insult Batman like that. Read on him first b4 you insult him like that.
To make it fair, it should be Superman vs The Fantastic Four.
Thor would never be able to block Captain Marvel's lightning. Cap's lightning is provided by Zeus, who gives Captain Marvel his energy reserves and magical resistance.
It is sent out by the wizard Shazam, a being many times above Celestial power level. The Celestials, if you didn't know, made the Destroyer their bitch. Easily. The Destroyer armour, made from the same material as Thor's hammer.
The wizard Shazam nearly killed the Spectre. Who is nearly omnipotent. The Spectre is closer to the Living Tribunal in power than he is to Odin.
As such, the wizard Shazam is more powerful, or at least on the same level as Odin, and his control over his lightning would easily exceed Thor's attempts to tame it.
Captain Marvel is as strong as Superman, which means he's as strong as Thor, because Marvel and DC agreed on the fact that Thor and Supes were just as strong.
Captain Marvel is many many many times faster than Thor, however, and he has managed to not get ground into a fine paste against the Spectre when the Spectre was definitely out to totally and utterly kill Captain Marvel.
So I would put forth the idea that Captain Marvel would beat Thor.
Hey Dave, I like your thinking. You should check out my blog for my proposed rematch.
thanos vs. darkseid
i hate to break it to you dc fanboys but what is his cheesy omega beams gonna do to thanos. oh and i have 2 words for you ...INFINITY GAUNTLET! Omega beams ha! cyclops craps omega beams
i only took a look at the first few comments so i dont know if yal are on a certain topic but batman winning against cap. is some crap, cap america would slap him to the ground and yes storm would have no chance in hell agains wonder women
Ok, here we go...
Supes vs. Hulk:
Hulk can lift up a mountain. Supes can THROW a mountain. Hulk can smash shit. Supes can smash it, and then use his speed and heat vision to reassemble and fuse it back together.
No contest?
Nope
WW vs. Storm:
COME ON. Amazonians are a race of hot, kickass women who use superhuman relics as weapons. WW's rope can restrain Supes, and her physical abilities are on par with Supes. Storm can make wind blow around and make it rain.
On the other hand, WW might melt if she gets wet, so there's always that possible explanation.
Bats vs. Cap:
My boy Bats all the way. I cannot comprehend how anyone would not get this. Ok, I admit, Cap is pretty cool...he uses a frisbee to beat up Nazis. But Bats...Bats is legendary. Bats is known as "The Batman" among the criminals of Gotham city. Not just Batman, but "The" Batman. If only for that reason, Bats would win. Ignoring his combat genius, ignoring his innovative technology on par with that of the United States government, ignoring his unnmatched martial arts skills, ignoring his seemingly supernatural stealth, ignoring the fact that he has beaten the crap out of Superman (the closest thing there is to invincible)on numerous occasions, Batman is "The" Batman...and anyone who has earned the right to a title from his enemies is the closest thing there is to being invincible.
Flash vs. Quicksilver:
Flash could assrape Quicksilver ten times over by the time Quicksilver blinks.
Wolverine vs. Logo:
Wolverine regenerates lost limbs. His skeleton is unbreakable. His claws can cut through anything. That's it.
Captain Marvel vs. Thor:
Much as I like SHAZAM!, I also realize that Thor can cause lighting to strike anywhere. The Captain turns into a little kid when struck by lightning. Point, set, match.
That's it. All other matches are just common sense. Some matches I'm thinking would be Nightwing vs. Daredevil, or Green Arrow vs. Punisher.
And then Apocalypse came along and killed every single one of them, why? Because he can.
U dumb horse shit DAVE, could u really think that hulk is only strong??, idiot, he as strenth which cant be measured, he can manipulate energy, he can run at high speed (not super speed) he can leap 100 miles ( no i ain exzagerating) he can (if he tries really hard) jump out the pkanet, breath in space, he can see astral projections so he knows hows gonna kick the shit outta him, he is highly immune to mind control, he can regenerate, and he can destroy superman, not by krptonite but rip his fucking head off!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, why didn't they give Thor Hawkman or Hawkgirl? I would much rather see giant hammer vs. giant mace than God of Thunder vs. man child Billy Batson/Captain Marvel. Cap Marvel is lame anyway. Cover his mouth before he yells Shazam and he can't become the Cap. I think Batman vs. Wolverine would be a better matchup to. Or even Lobo and Ghost Rider in the battle of the bikers.
ACTUALLY SENSIBLE PAIRINGS
Batman or Green Arrow vs. The Punisher or Wolverine or Blade or even Ironman (Thanks Siskoid)
Thor vs. Hawkman or Hawkgirl (Thanks anonymous)
Ghost Rider or Luke Cage vs. Lobo (kudos anonymous)
Capt. America vs. Superman (Battle of the Ultimate Boy Scouts)
Wonder Woman vs. Spiderman (Because no female in Marvel Universe could eat WW's lunch)
Aquaman vs. The Human Torch (like Namor of old used to fight the first Human Torch)
Hulk vs. Martian Manhunter (Battle of the green monsters)
Flash vs. Daredevil (let's see Matt Murdock sense this!)
Old School Match:
Black Panther (T'Challa)vs. Wildcat (Even though this Panther is the modern day King of Wakanda, he can go back in time and vice versa for this brawl.)
Others:
Black Canary vs. Invisible Woman
Plastic Man vs. Mr. Fantastic
The Atom vs. Hank Pym
Captain Marvel has beaten Superman a few times. And he thoroughly handed Superman's ass to him during Kingdom Come.
Thor shouldn't have won that assfart.
My take (as the characters are now):
Superman vs. The Hulk: Superman wins. As you said, he could fling the Hulk into space. In fact, that might be the only effective attack, due to the Hulk's healing factor.
Captain America vs. Batman: Batman would win sneakily. Specifically, he'd wrap himself in an American flag, thus making him invincible to Cap.
Storm vs. Wonder Woman: Storm would actually win, but only by using a hurricane to send WW to another continent. If Diana had kicked her head, it WOULD fly off.
Spider-Man vs. Superboy: I agree with Dave. Spider-Man wins.
Wolverine vs. Lobo: This is a draw, since neither of them can be killed. Wolverine has the whole adamantium bones and healing factor thing, while Heaven won't let Lobo in and Hell's afraid he'll take over. No, really! They'd brawl until the arena was a smoking crater, then realize it was futile and go get a drink.
Quicksilver vs. The Flash: Quicksilver, actually. These days, he can time travel. Question: How do you beat someone who can prevent your birth? Answer: You don't.
Jubilee vs. Robin: At this point, neither of them has superpowers. The key difference is that Robin never did and he kicked butt anyway. Therefore, Robin would easily win.
Namor vs. Aquaman: Namor would beat Aquaman on dry land, where he is definetly more skilled.
Elektra vs. Catwoman: A ninja beats a catburglar any day.
Thor vs. Captain Marvel: Thor would just zap the kid before he even gets to turn into a superhero. "Sha-ZAP!"
Silver Surfer vs. Green Lantern: The Silver Surfer could just have Galactus eat the Green Lantern Core, rendering the Green Lantern powerless.
Here's one of my own, Lex Luthor vs. Kingpin. I selected them because they're both non-superpowered crime bosses. Heck, they're even both bald!
Winner: Kingpin. He may not be superpowered, but see his bulky frame? That's not fat, it's pure muscle. This is how it would go: First Lex would explain that he has a plan to totally crush the Kingpin. Then the Kingpin totally crushes Lex. I'm not speaking figuratively: he'd be a pancake.
lol, your eplaination of batman vs cap made me rofl like a waffle. is it really cheating? cap has super-human... alot, batman has regural human everything else. as for their expierience and training, i'll say they're about even (even though i think batman's training is better. ninja training and stuff). i mean, is iron man cheating when he uses his suit? if you lose against him you could say "he only won cuz of his 6 billion dollar suit of armor" but thats his "power" how does a normal human compete against a superpowered hero? gadgets, and serums right?
so i think its a little hasty to say batman is a cheater.
now for your winner of wonderwoman vs storm. I say sure, ww could've beanten storm, but i don't think its as one sided as you're making it seem. heres my idea of how it could go down...i don't know if this IS how it went down, but here goes..."naturally it begins as an arial fight. WW being prideful and courages, puts her worries and fears aside and flies straight at storm in hopes to land a strong punch. in reaction to this head on attack, storm brings up a powerful gust of wind to slowdown WW's flying to get just enough time to strike her with a bolt of lightning, not emitted from herself, but from a stowm cloud. from a cloud i think the shock would be much more powerful(if you saw the cartoon fight of superman vs shazam, shazam used his lightningbolt to turn the match to his favor, if superman was so affected by lightning, i doubt WW can do much better. if you havent seen it, they have the fight on youtube), then she could do this repeatedly until WW gives up or dies. BUT you're right, since storm isn't strong or invulnerable, one smack to the face, and she's done, so i'd call this match 50-50. but i'd place my bet on strom anyday just cuz DC characters are so overpowered against Marvel. gotta give some to marvel.
Hal Jordan would NOT beat silver surfer, he just wont. maybe as parallax or the spectre, but not as just hal jordan gl.
you should see how they pitted goku from dbz aginst superman and goku won after going super saiyan
Hal Jordan kills Surfer. Thor almost beats Superman, but Supes has laser eyes, & can move super-fast & ice breath & shit.
This comic got sad near the end like when Wonder Woman took Thor's hammer & became the new Thor or when it turned out the whole series was used as a foil to create the Satanic ABortion known as Amalgam Comics.
If there was an avatar of the AC, i would personally kick him in his very tiny balls
You are fucking dumb if you think that the flash would beat quick silver. Quick silver can vibrate his molecules and take him back through time. Not to mention he can vibrate his limbs so fast he can fly.
There is also no way any green lantern could take the Silver Surfer. Superman could not even take the Silver Surfer.
Superman versus Hulk is a great match. I still can't answer who would really win.
Spiderman versus Superboy, I just don't think Spiderman can hurt Superboy enough to win. So i do believe Superboy will win.
Wolverine versus Lobo. Lobo is stronger but if Wolverine can cut Lobo, Lobo is dead. But Since Lobo can assure that Wolverine can't get near him, Lobo will win.
Storm versus Wonderwoman. Wonder woman sure is fast and strong. But I'd still say Storm will win especially that we don't really know how powerful she is. Superman is also weakened being struck by a cannonade of lightning. I don't even think Wonderwoman could get near Storm especially that Storm can make the place dark, making it her advantage and poison Wonderwoman with a harmful fume, or make a sudden flash of light to blind wonder woman, or simply absorb energies and make a full blast to wonderwoman. Storm wins.
sonally i want to see a marvel/dc villians edition.
The Joker v. The Green Goblin
Lex Luthor v. The Kingpin
Magneto v. Sinestro
Onslaught v Anti-Monitor
Mr. Mxlplk v. Impossible Man
Superboy Prime v. The Marvel Zombies
heh
I would just like to say that Lobo would of eat Weapon X for a snack & then found some Earth broads to party with. Not to take away from the mutant killer, but what you going to do wolf-boy when all your slicing and slashing makes ten dozen pissed off Lobos?
Thor versus Captian Marvel? That's lame versus boring who cares.
I hate to admit, Wonder Woman would rape Storm. God-like powers versus mutant powers. There no contest.
Now, this is the big one. Anyone who thinks Superman can beat the Hulk. Needs to stay off drugs. Superman is DC bully. But, if he can't beat you with punch he screwed. Superman can't pick up Hulk and throw in space or he would of done that to DoomsDay.
Superman fights villians one on one. Hulk fights entire superpowered teams and beats them. He rips God-like beings armor off (OnSlaught) and start world wars. Supes better ran and get a gamma-guy and turn back to Bruce. No contest, in the end, Hulk is the strongest. Hulk Smash puny superman.
superman vs hulk, supes would ass rape. just throw hulk on the sun. if on sun, hulk would burn and heal forever. or supes cna just beat his ass 2 a pulp
flash vs quicksilver, flash can move through dimentions, and faster than light, giving him time travel ability. as soon as quick silver even took his 1st step, flash would have grabbed, punched him a few thousand times, and run back home for some nice hot chocolate.
Shazam vs thor, i dono, thunder god vs guy with the powers of 6 gods. it would be one hell of a fight, but if possible, can thor summon the same lightning to turn shazam back into blly? if not, then i cant really say who would win.
Green lantern vs silver surfer...
kyle rayner is just a kid, but a kid who kicks ass. none the less, SS would 122wipe his ass, in the Gl/SS crossover, gl had slight trouble taking on SS when he had only half of his powers. if it were Hal Jordan like u said dave, then Hal would ass rape. for fun, Hal would make his own surfbord and kick his ass lol.
WW vs storm, ww would win. her bracelets can catch lightning, just like she deos with bullets. just fly at storm, catch any lightning with her metal wrists, and punch storm in the face, KO or dead.
batman vs captain america, dave had it 100%. batman would win, even if cap has increased reflexes, and strength, his fighting skills are no where near batmans. for fuck sakes, batman took down the HULK. THE HULK!
lobo vs wolverine, LOBO WOULD ASS RAPE! he fought superman 2 a standstill, wolvering is just some punk with claws and a healing ability, with slight increased strength. lobos healing factor is faster than wolverines, and i bet wolverine can heal when his head it cut off. lobo can. no matter what, lobo would win, wolverine may get a slice or 2 in, but thats it. lobo vs ghost rider would be SO MUCH BETTER! BATTLE OF THE BIKERS!
aquaman vs namor
if under water, aquaman no question about it. if on land, tough one. aquaman does have inhansed strength, but i dont know if its near namors. so for this, ill say namor if on land.
robin vs jubilee, MOST USELESS FIGHT EVER. robin vs blade would have been cool.
they should have ade DEATHSTROKE vs DEADPOOL! deathstroke would win but battle would be really really close.
i wish they would have added green arrow vs hawkeye.
martain manhunter has been said to be stronger than superman in the comics many times. thats maybe why they didnt add him. supes was already 2 strong for marvel, now ur adding the martian? lol
superman vs hulk, supes would ass rape. just throw hulk on the sun. if on sun, hulk would burn and heal forever. or supes cna just beat his ass 2 a pulp
flash vs quicksilver, flash can move through dimentions, and faster than light, giving him time travel ability. as soon as quick silver even took his 1st step, flash would have grabbed, punched him a few thousand times, and run back home for some nice hot chocolate.
Shazam vs thor, i dono, thunder god vs guy with the powers of 6 gods. it would be one hell of a fight, but if possible, can thor summon the same lightning to turn shazam back into blly? if not, then i cant really say who would win.
Green lantern vs silver surfer...
kyle rayner is just a kid, but a kid who kicks ass. none the less, SS would 122wipe his ass, in the Gl/SS crossover, gl had slight trouble taking on SS when he had only half of his powers. if it were Hal Jordan like u said dave, then Hal would ass rape. for fun, Hal would make his own surfbord and kick his ass lol.
WW vs storm, ww would win. her bracelets can catch lightning, just like she deos with bullets. just fly at storm, catch any lightning with her metal wrists, and punch storm in the face, KO or dead.
batman vs captain america, dave had it 100%. batman would win, even if cap has increased reflexes, and strength, his fighting skills are no where near batmans. for fuck sakes, batman took down the HULK. THE HULK!
lobo vs wolverine, LOBO WOULD ASS RAPE! he fought superman 2 a standstill, wolvering is just some punk with claws and a healing ability, with slight increased strength. lobos healing factor is faster than wolverines, and i bet wolverine can heal when his head it cut off. lobo can. no matter what, lobo would win, wolverine may get a slice or 2 in, but thats it. lobo vs ghost rider would be SO MUCH BETTER! BATTLE OF THE BIKERS!
aquaman vs namor
if under water, aquaman no question about it. if on land, tough one. aquaman does have inhansed strength, but i dont know if its near namors. so for this, ill say namor if on land.
robin vs jubilee, MOST USELESS FIGHT EVER. robin vs blade would have been cool.
they should have ade DEATHSTROKE vs DEADPOOL! deathstroke would win but battle would be really really close.
i wish they would have added green arrow vs hawkeye.
martain manhunter has been said to be stronger than superman in the comics many times. thats maybe why they didnt add him. supes was already 2 strong for marvel, now ur adding the martian? lol
superman vs hulk, supes would ass rape. just throw hulk on the sun. if on sun, hulk would burn and heal forever. or supes cna just beat his ass 2 a pulp
flash vs quicksilver, flash can move through dimentions, and faster than light, giving him time travel ability. as soon as quick silver even took his 1st step, flash would have grabbed, punched him a few thousand times, and run back home for some nice hot chocolate.
Shazam vs thor, i dono, thunder god vs guy with the powers of 6 gods. it would be one hell of a fight, but if possible, can thor summon the same lightning to turn shazam back into blly? if not, then i cant really say who would win.
Green lantern vs silver surfer...
kyle rayner is just a kid, but a kid who kicks ass. none the less, SS would 122wipe his ass, in the Gl/SS crossover, gl had slight trouble taking on SS when he had only half of his powers. if it were Hal Jordan like u said dave, then Hal would ass rape. for fun, Hal would make his own surfbord and kick his ass lol.
WW vs storm, ww would win. her bracelets can catch lightning, just like she deos with bullets. just fly at storm, catch any lightning with her metal wrists, and punch storm in the face, KO or dead.
batman vs captain america, dave had it 100%. batman would win, even if cap has increased reflexes, and strength, his fighting skills are no where near batmans. for fuck sakes, batman took down the HULK. THE HULK!
lobo vs wolverine, LOBO WOULD ASS RAPE! he fought superman 2 a standstill, wolvering is just some punk with claws and a healing ability, with slight increased strength. lobos healing factor is faster than wolverines, and i bet wolverine can heal when his head it cut off. lobo can. no matter what, lobo would win, wolverine may get a slice or 2 in, but thats it. lobo vs ghost rider would be SO MUCH BETTER! BATTLE OF THE BIKERS!
aquaman vs namor
if under water, aquaman no question about it. if on land, tough one. aquaman does have inhansed strength, but i dont know if its near namors. so for this, ill say namor if on land.
robin vs jubilee, MOST USELESS FIGHT EVER. robin vs blade would have been cool.
they should have ade DEATHSTROKE vs DEADPOOL! deathstroke would win but battle would be really really close.
i wish they would have added green arrow vs hawkeye.
martain manhunter has been said to be stronger than superman in the comics many times. thats maybe why they didnt add him. supes was already 2 strong for marvel, now ur adding the martian? lol
Personally, I would have put the Punisher against Batman. Mainly because of the Vigilante Match- up and also to see how dirty a fight it would be.
Does DC actually have anyone who would be a good match-up for Rogue?
I don't know if you guys knew this but Hulk's power is exponitial. As in "x squared". Super man's power relies on our yellow sun, without it, he's nothing. Sure for a while he has power, like a solar battery but eventually he loses that power, then Hulk goes all HULK RAPE YOU PUNY MAN. and guess what? Hulk rapes puny superman. Oh and that whole superman throws Hulk into space bull, if he could, which he could do, he would have. But if he didn't do that to Doomsday, a stagnent power, he deffinantly won't do it to a exponital power. In the end Hulk and Superman start to put on more and more power, hulk getting stronger and stronger, and superman stops pulling punches. Superman likes to get personal with his enemies, the fight goes until night the lack of our 'yellow sun' starts to drain and superman loses power, meanwhile Hulk is getting all, HULk rape you harder than before.
Go ahead plug it into a calculater
y=45(superman)
y=(3x)squared(hulk)
which one goes higher? Hulk
Yeah thats right i went math on your patetic minds, ooh hows that for high school math. It like your freaken' krpytonite. Oh yeah superman's weakness, krpytonite it's green. So is the NotSoJollyGreenGiant.
Yeah thats right suck it. lol
btw, Marvel's Rogue/Ms.Marvel(Warbird) is DC's WonderWomen. Methinks thats a better fight than storm. I like storm but come one no contest.
I agree with the Batman-Punisher fight, both crazy pshycatic sons of bitches with lots of angst and pain. Frank Castle lost whole family, and Ol' Brucie lost his parents, in the end they stop fighting and cry and head to a bar and drink it off. Sob Sob, they're like kindred spirits.
Spiderman vs. superboy? Honestly no one else? No contest. Spidey owns.
Oh yeah and that whole "Captian Marvel is Six gods power he owns" doesn't matter because Zeus uses lightning Guess what so does Odinson, evens it out plus Thor is a god. IS a god, his strength surpasses EVERYONE elses, in a clear cut fist fight Thor pwns. In a lightning fight Thor owns, you know why? god>mortal.
I think everything else works fine, the wins and such. Personally i'd put in some more awesomeness, ending in Hulk, in hulklikefashion going beserk on everyone, and everyon's combineded effort to defeat him. It would take everyone after getting supercharged on the fight with Superman, its like his Spinach, hes a megaultimate destructive getting madder and madder ending in the need to get Betty Ross.
I just can't get rid of the thought of Hulk with so much muscles he can't scracth his head. Then i think of him in those horribly big winter coats where you walk like a penguin and your arms stick straght out. That is a hilarious sight.
And even then he owns silly humans.
-Dragoon
spiderman cant beat superboy. superboy is almost as powerful as superman. spiderman can throw all the punches he wants and cover the guy with web. that wont do shit. superboy wont even flinch. superboy can break the thought-barrier, i highly doubt spidy can move that quick. with 1 punch from superboy, spiderman would be nothing more than a red blood cloud.
so, while I understand that - logically - Surperman would cream the Hulk, no doubt about it, I can't help but wonder what would happen if they'd fought on levels of super coolness.
Okay, I realize that this probably isn't the most wide spread opinion, but I think that Superman is Superlame. On multiple levels.
Let me start with his overall powers : may I say lame?
Boring? Uninspired? "Hey, I'm going to make a superhero!" what is his power? "His power is EVERYTHING only BETTER THAN ANYONE EVER TIMES INFINITY TIMES THREE THOUSAND!!"
-and his only weakness is kryptonite, some bizzare element from where ever land.
What's the excitement in that? I want some suspense - I want to think, for a second, that my personal hero won't make it. And I want to feel that without having some ridiculous villain manage to get some weird elemental whatever from the edges of space!! I mean, I know that superman has to keep these guys in check for a REASON - they ARE evil - but we ALL can't be rocket scientists. And I personally believe that any plot line that involves rocketing anything - anything at all - off into space is just stupid.
Now then. Let us start on his overall look.
That hair! fugly! He looks like he wears pleated pants on his down time and says things like "golly!" and "neato!" not to mention that - unlike the Hulk - he is STILL conspicuously mattress - sized when he isn't being superman. How can lois lane NOT connect the dots on that one?!? How many OTHER men does she know with shoulders that disgustingly broad??!? Nor do I like his outfit. I just can't take him seriously. It looks like he's doing an ad for hair gel or something.
The Hulk, however, is multiple kinds of awesome. He's big and he's green and he's super cool and there isn't any ridunkulous space crap to deal with in his story line.
Because when you talk superheroes, THAT is your fantasy. You can't all the the sudden throw in stupid magical sorceresses and just fuck up the story line with ancient greek mythology. All in all, the only origin stories that don't leave me hating the character are that of the villians.
Anybody in for some Solomon Grundy? Anybody?
coolest origin story. Ever.
Super man has neverout ran the flash the only tied and it Happened twice furthermore it was barry allen he tied with and no other flash. Also the hulks powers are a lot more than what you said the hulk would destroy super man. The hulk is stronger and super man has a ego which will let the hulk get close enough for him to smash his ass. Wolverine would own lobo because dc isn't even sure what powers lobo has one komic he kan be hurt by bullets the next he kan stand toe to toe with super man I'm confused!!! And no green lantern kan beat the silver surfer cause he has the power cosmic on his side
SUPERMAN SUCKS ASS!
OK... time to educate you DC fanboys on the matter of how things should have been.
Hulk would have beaten Superman hands down. Supey would have thrown a few punches, knocked Hulk around a bit, maybe burned him with some retinal laser-action... which would have pissed off our jade giant by no small measure. And anyone who knows anything about Hulkster knows that "the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets". Hulk's upper limits of strength have yet to be defined, as they keep increasing as he gets pissed. Basically Kal-El wails on Hulk, makes him mad, Hulkey pounds Supes harder than he's ever been hit before, hard enough to shatter those bones of steel.
Batman does have his good points, but you are so selling Cap short. He is the peak human capability, not to mention he has more experience and is a living legend. Bats can try his tricks, but the Star-Spangled hero has already encountered and overcome anything that Bruce can think up.
Most of you have the sense to realize that Thor rightfully won his fight. He is the strongest of the Norse Pantheon.
And as for Thor vs Superman... Thor has a mystically enchanted hammer, and is a GOD... The Man of Tomorrow is vulnerable to the mystic world... 'nuff said.
And for those who complain about Storm winning... she may not be as physically powerful as WW, but you are forgetting that she controls the very forces of nature. Do not underestimate that kind of power, there is nothing more destructive than the elements themselves... just watch the news after a major disaster.
Marvel vs. DC
I don't remember much about this series as I was a kid at the time, but I remember that Wolverine was fighting some n00b who none of me or my friends knew a damn thing about, as we had been properly raised in the true faith (Marvel) I was disappointed that he didn't get to kill batman, but I was excited to see him lay the beatdown on Lobo, sadly there was no beatdown, the two companies wimped out because wolvie versus lobo would see more blood shed than a thousand year old slaughterhouse.Pretty sure there's no adamantium in DC, and Logan's been ripped up a few times but it never slowed him down. Wolverine wins hands down against Lobo or Batman, that second fight goes aa little like this...
" I've prepared to fight you Wolver-GURK"
"'s a nasty cut there kid, you might want to get that looked at."
Oh, and the Superman Batman fights? They had to end the way they did because DC would've backed out if their precious heroes were utterly humiliated. Batman vs, Captain America isn't even a fight, the way it endeed ws a joke and your alternate ending is also a joke, Caps should've heard the water coming mile away, and it would take a ridiculous amount of any chemical to have any effect on Captain America. Superman on the other hand, as I hear it told from my misguided acquaintances who read DC, could only be defeated by the beyonder, or possibly someone wearing the Infinity gauntlet, and even then it'd be close.
Friggin DC fans, can't accept that Marvel is the truth,the light and the way.
See? That was Uber-fanboy
Dave u r really wrong abt Wolverine and Lobo, bcoz Wolwerine will win coz he can heal himself and regenerate back no matter how much Lobo damages him! WOLWERINE ROCKS!!
superman is great but the hulk has never died and cant die,they killed superman in 1992.The hulk can stop the force of gravity itself so i dont think superman throwing him into space will do anything.Superman died because he was beat up so bad,to quote Ben Grimm(the Thing) when the Hulks around its "Clobberin Time"
The Hulk is a ridiculous creation that is basically as powerful as the idiot writers want to make him at the moment. They sit around and get high and say "Let's have the Hulk punch God™" and then they make it so. He is as stupid as his supporters and their mantra "the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets", and that his power levels haven't been defined. Garbage.
If Superman and the Hulk sit on the same plane in terms of pure strength, ignoring Superman's other powers, the smarter fighter wins. And they DO sit on the same plane, roughly, in terms of strength.
The Hulk is a moron, and I don't care how "mad" he gets (or smart they've tried to make him over the years combining the various ridiculous versions of him), a clear head wins against fury pretty much all of the time in an even fight. Flight and a BRAIN gives the advantage to Superman in this fight and it ends with the Hulk as nothing but vapor in the Sun. Suck it Hulk supporters, run home and cry into your rubber Hulk fists.
All this coming from a supporter of BOTH Marvel and DC.
Did anyone eactually read world war hulk before they wrote their comments. There have been many incarnations of hulk. Grey hulk (smarter hulk but weaker then savage) Professor Hulk (deluded banner personality brains but close to savage strength) Savage Hulk (generally what people know about hulk that never read the comic this is one who says hulk smash and all that crap but this used to be strongest hulk cause madder he got stronger he got so basically unbeatable in fight with most people) By the way superman fought hulk before long time ago in giant size comic this was before Bryne neutered him. Pre bryne superman was fast as speed of light could change time crack the earth all that stuff now he is alot less then that. But at the time of this giant issue it was savbage hulk vs pre bryne superman and u know what happened they beat the hell out of each other till superman realized he couldnt win so he stood still planted his feet and let hulk beat on him nothing happened so hulk got bored and walked away end of fight . Now superman is alot weaker and nowhere near what he was in the 1950s , 60s , or 70s (bryne changed superman in the 80s) So todays superman if he fought the new persona of hulk (ie world war hulk) would lose badly but only in fight. Like superman deep down hulk still has banner inside him and wont kill anyone. This is proven in world war hulk. a hulk that can never be beat , he was on the moon ( no need to breathe in space so that cant hurt him) he fights black bolt( 2nd strongest guy inmarvel universe if he whispers he can topple mountains he screams he can destroy planets suns whatever) well he screamed at world war hulk as fast as he ripped the skin off hulk it regenerated (bad ass healing factor) well as he was screaming hulk got closer and closer till he grabbed his throat to shut him up. the throwing in space u all talk about wouldnt work because he would always work his way back to earth like he did in world war hulk ( the heroes tryed to get rid of him in deep space) so that leaves the neutered superman to fight him . Now dont get me wrong i think superman even though some call him lame really is the idea when u think of superhero and even though he is neutered is a bad mofo. But if he didnt know about the world war hulk he would let him to close and hulk would hurt him worse then doomsday. By the way world war hulk has the same strength as savage (madder he gets stronger) but he also has banners intelligence (not banners personality). alot smarter then superman sorry for supes fans. With that said he would beat superman but would not kill cause even this hulk wont kill shown in world war hulk. also this hulk can crack the planet with two stomps so the sun wouldn t hurt him either sorry to defunct that as well. Now on the other hand if superman was prepared and knew world war hulk then he wouldnt let him get close and they both would fight a hard fought battle like the first time superman fought hulk pre byrne days. Would be close fight and could go either way but only thing that hurts superman is he tends to ease up sometimes when he thinks he is close to win , world war hulk wont so i give edge to world war hulk. Lastly world war hulk can fight on any planet and still be same only way superman would have chance is in the yellow sun area and other sun he would be doomed.
* one reference point when i say bryne superman I am talking about a writer who forever changed supermans powers.
** pre bryne superman would really give world war hulk a run for his money though , he could prolly just go back in time and kill banner before he became hulk (thats what i would do) but knowing all about superman he wouldnt do that cause he doesnt kill so in end even pre bryne superman would prolly lose in end.
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In a knockdown, drag out fight to the death between Marvel universe and Dc universe, who would win? This is one of the oldest unanswered questions around. Most people pick their favorite characters and side with them; others actually use statistics when coming to their own personal conclusions. The fact is because of a number of reasons this fight of a life time could go either way. For example, Dc’s numbers could easily be enough to win. On the other hand the fact that ninety nine percent of marvel characters are human is enough to lose.
In a knockdown, drag out fight to the death between Marvel universe and Dc universe, who would win? This is one of the oldest unanswered questions around. Most people pick their favorite characters and side with them; others actually use statistics when coming to their own personal conclusions. The fact is because of a number of reasons this fight of a life time could go either way. For example, Dc’s numbers could easily be enough to win. On the other hand the fact that ninety nine percent of marvel characters are human is enough to lose.
Man, this sure do brings back memory. I used to watch this a lot. I still watch this kind of show on netflix sometimes.
Ok, most of them i agree with, but any dc character would be a marvel character. superboy has all the powers of superman except flying and spiderman has powers of a spider. come on superboy would kick spidermans ass. dc is far better.
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I have to go with Superman in a fight, just because he is more popular
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Of course Wolverine wins!!
Lobo is just a ripoff of Wolverine!! No Wolverine, No Lobo!! He doesn't share elements of Lobo like Spiderman shares elements of Superman and Batman (occupation and origin, respectively) he's just a straight ripoff!! Wolverine for the win!!
In a 2006 interview, Keith Giffen said, "I have no idea why Lobo took off... I came up with him as an indictment of the Punisher, Wolverine hero prototype, and somehow he caught on as the high violence poster boy. Go figure.
http://web.archive.org/web/20060525000607/http://www.newsarama.com/images/interviews/2006/giffen/GiffenBio.htm
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